I have been crushed as well. I am just telling myself to relax and wait a day or so and see what happens. The overall quality of the results is very poor from what I can see. I see a number of sites that "link to" another a site and they rank. That doesn't make a ton of sense that the recommending site ranks higher than then the recommended site. It appears to be a filter applied to reduce link popularity.
Oh you've got to be kidding me? I am not on the first 2 pages anymore :evil: :evil: My 2nd major site http://www.webinaminute.com shows on the 5th.. but fpworld.com is history!!! Tell me this is going to revert back again???!!!! *groan*
Sorry to hear that Andrea. I'm sure you'll be back on top very soon. Same for all of you guys. That is why its good to have a site that is month old because I have the same pagerank as I had before which is PR0 :lol:
These results are just too drastic to believe they will go on for awhile. There are some weird pages in some of the results. I'm hoping this fixes itself soon.
i definitely don't like the results of this one. i hope it doesn't stick!
It has to be related to links. Sites that are number one for allinanchor don't show up at all in the top results. Definitely a filter related to certain links is involved. Quite a radical departure from ordinary results.
A lot of people have learned a valuable lesson I think. Don't put all you eggs in one basket. Google is the main basket these days but you still need to use other methods for traffic building. I think Google knows people are inflating link popularity and are using methods to dampen it now.
Hard to say what happened. I've been trying to come up with a theory or two as to what may have happened, but haven't come up with much. There are now a bunch of sites listed that I've never even heard of before coming up in the spots I used to be, and I've been dropped.. You know what they say about "having all your eggs in 1 basket" if something happens to it, what then? That's a good question..
Last month's backlink update saw a ton of backlinks turn up missing. Mostly they appeared to be duplicate links from the same or similar sites. This month we have seen the continuation of the "dampening" of links from one site. My best guess is that Google is doing this in order to devalue "sold" links. Up until this update, all you needed was links with the correct anchor text to quickly achieve number one. If a site with a lot of pages put a link to you on every page of their website with the correct anchor text, you would immediatedly rank number 1. Now it will take a larger number of links from multiple hosts and IPs. Since they've been working on LocalRank, Google has gotten a lot more ip-centric in their checks.
well if links don't count as much as they used to, it's time to figure out what does count!
hey, here is crazy idea :idea: : how about we ask google what changes did they make and what counts and what doesnt. :D
That'd be a great idea .. 'cept I always have the image of these "Google Gods" sitting at this table planning on how to drive us all nuts... It seems like they sit there and get some sort of pleasure out of watching webmasters scramble... Do you think google will actually tell us??? That would be pretty cool if they did.... On the upside.. you can't find me in google.. but my PR went from 4 to PR5... :lol: Too bad my traffic was cut by about 60%!!! Doesn't it usually only take a matter of days for the "truth" on the new algo-rhythms and linking strategy to come out?
I decided to sit back and watch what happens. Traffic to my site doesn't seem to have been affected that bad, although it is still a bit of a blow. The "google gods" as they are known, are probably just looking to knock around folks that have been trying to manipulate search results more than anything else. **They, the Google Gods** probably can get ideas on what webmasters are doing to alter the results just by lurking in common forums.. :?
I know they will reply. i have contacted them once and asked about best optimization methods. They replied with 3 pages of useful information. They are no gods, just a successful professionals. I am going to contact them as soon as I have a minute and find out whats going on. If I get any responce I will let you guys know :)
You're the best! :) Please do let us know.. I don't like being in the "80's" :lol:
pagerank went up but ranking went down. go figure.
** some puzzling stuff ** If you get news stormex be sure to keep us posted:!:
Check you back links on www-va.google.com link:www.yourdomain.com I see tons more links than usual.
this half baked update is no good! i think google lost data.
I will have to agree with edwin on this one. They answered me with the default message that didn't answer my questions but only made it more confusing. They said that the problems were caused by new sites being indexed, others dropped and changes in ranking :? Here is the message: [quote:2648ab6b0f]Thank you for your note. As you know, results in our index change regularly based on ongoing, automated processes aimed at improving the quality and content of our search results. Changes you observe may include, but are not limited to, addition of new sites, changes in the ranking of existing sites, sites falling out of the index or getting dropped and sites' content fluctuating between old and new content. We realize these changes can be confusing. However, these processes are completely automated and not indicative of wrong-doing or penalization of individual sites. Inclusion and ranking in Google is a free service. We currently include over three billion pages in our index and it is certainly our intent to represent the content of the Internet fairly and accurately. The ongoing changes you have observed are part of this effort. While we cannot guarantee that your page will consistently appear in our index or appear with a particular rank, we do offer guidelines for building a "crawler-friendly" site. You can find these guidelines at http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html . Following these recommendations may increase the likelihood that your site will show up consistently in Google search results. We hope the information we have provided above is helpful to you. Due to the tremendous volume of information and help requests we receive, we are not always able to provide personal attention to questions pertaining to individual websites. If this response did not adequately resolve your question, we hope that you will visit the webmaster section of our site at http://www.google.com/webmasters/ . In an effort to better address your needs, we've dedicated this entire section of our website to answering common webmaster questions, listing Google's quality requirements and recommendations, and much more. Of course, we cannot anticipate and answer everyone's questions on our website. Realizing this, we have also created a Google discussion group on Google Groups where Google users and webmasters can connect to share their vast knowledge and experience. You can access this group at http://groups.google.com/groups?q=google.public.support.general . If you have already checked the webmaster section of our website and haven't found an answer, we encourage you to post your question to the Google Support group. Regards, The Google Team[/quote:2648ab6b0f]
Yeah, that is a pretty generic explanation from Google. Some sites get dropped, others get added. Doesn't explain too much of what is currently happening.
the thing still isn't done "updating". still no consistency in the search results.
Thanks for sharing that with us. None too clear, but an answer at the very least! I guess we'll all just have to wait and see..
Anyone who was running an e-commerce site that was solely devoted to Google free results would be decimated now. It is definitely a cautionary tale on counting too much on one source of traffic. But realistically people have to rely on Google because they do provide mode of the traffic.
All we can do right now is make educated guesses. My best guess would be that they do have some problems. They gave me a standard message with some crap about those weird things that have been going on being normal. And that was said after I told them that the whole webmaster community is waiting for their answer. What do they think we are stupid over here and can't differentiate between normal and weird? Besides if they do have some problems they will never openly state them to outsides. As to what tom said, it is another possibility although I dont think they would make such drastic changes on that account.
They are looking at doing a multi-billion dollar IPO and they have been criticized lateley for "spam problems" in the mainstream press. Chances are, they are not going to admit to any "problems" on their end.
True enough Tom. I would think that "updates" take more than a day or two to settle back in. I'm going to remain patient. What else can you do?
you can always start making a bunch of stupid changes in your site so when the update is over you guarantee yourself to be lower! :P
Yeah, there is a lot of idle chatter about this update but very few realistic theories. I wouldn't change anything just yet.
for sure there are some bad results and for sure google is getting millions of complaint letters from webmasters so they know the new algo needs tweaking. when you consider just how large their index is, any major update will have lots of unexpected consequences. they are probably tweaking as the go along as they get individual reports. but still, they build their whole system on backlinks so the sites that were leading a week ago will probably creep back up in the results.
The results appear to have settled down and improved a bit. But I am still seeing "odd things".
Don't say its settled down and looking better.. tell me the results still suck!! I can't be found, either one of my major sites!, on the first 36 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How the hell can I go from worst case scenerio 50 something, to top 20.. to SQUAT!
i feel your pain fpworld. it doesn't make much sense. not only did your rank go down but your pagerank went up!!! that is what is freaking out people so bad.
I know.. and I didn't change 1 thing!!! How can I possibly go up in page rank.. go up in back links (according to the www-va thing in my host file) ... but go to 136 or so position??????? Its not freakin' possible!! I did however join GoogleAdWords... Knock on wood... When we were in the top 20.. we sold like crazy.. I just have to get the people TO the site... so I figured if google wont help me.. I'll help myself... *groan* I hope this works!!!!!!!!!!! I am capped at $30/day right now... until I can be sure it works.. I can't risk more.. tho I seem to have beat out everyone else with that number... can't ask for more right?
yeah. if you were selling more with the rankings then the google adwords should work great. and i really do believe many of the sites will "return" at some point. to quote jay-z: your reign on the top was shorter than leprechauns :) use the adwords and be patient and i bet you will see more and more sales and a return to the ranking.
I have seen people at other webmaster forums promoting the idea that this latest update only affects "commercial phrases". It's a decent conspiracy theory, especially with Google ready to do an IPO soon.
FPworld, if you want to see yourself ranking in 3rd place, do this: frontpage templates -nonsense You will see you were ready to rank third before whatever happened happened. I am also sure that you will see your site return. Despite many idiotic theories I've read on forums, I don't see this as a filter or "anti-seo" or any conspiracy. I think it is merely a technological blunder with unforeseen consequences. People have said this has happened before and within a few weeks the sites return.
what I wouldn't give in this world to come back as #3 :lol: that is cool... You guys have never steered me wrong before.. I'm going to just hold my breath and wait for it to come back.. in the meantime... day 1 on googlead went not to bad... hopefully day2 will be even better... :D
weird. Maybe something just misfired at Google more than anything else? :?:
That number 3 rules! You just have to teach people to add weird stop words after your keywords :P
it is a filter. like always. this one is an evil filter. its wiping out the sites that should be there based on past behavior.
A screwed up filter? Does it really take a few weeks to fix??
they may not be in a hurry to fix anything. i bet adwords sales has a lot to do with the speed in which they're looking into the "problem".
For everyone who loses in an update, someone else wins. There must be some people who are happy about this!
That so figures Edwin... Ahh well.. what can you do, right? and Rob.. I'm sure there are... not to many people in my keywords were affected.. at least not on the first page... they are the ones that have always been on top... I was just lucky I guess :roll:
One mans victory is another mans defeat. I think that the upcoming IPO may have something to do with it. I am sure they are going to want to score on it..
It's time to start watching the SERPS closely and see what we can reverse engineer. PageRank obviously doesn't matter as much as it used to. And there appears to be a de-valuation of generic links. In particular if pages that point to your page are not from similarly themed sites, then a penalty or filter is introduced. At least that's how it appears to be working currently.
check this out... http://slashdot.org/articles/03/11/26/1458203.shtml?tid=111&tid=126&tid=187&tid=95
here's another one worth reading: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/33448.html here is the best one i've seen so far. an internal spam score which triggers a filter when a site looks "too good to be true" http://sethf.com/anticensorware/google/bayesian-spam.php
I like the argument from Seth F. And it makes sense. Defeat the spammers (who benefit the most) right before Christmas and force them into AdWords. If you ever read Google's Terms of Service, you are not even allowed to run a website for profit using Google results. Although they don't enforce it now, they very well could at any point in the future. As they move towards their IPO they are trying to force their numbers up as high as possible. Any sites that had unrealistic linking going on got hit by the "spam filter" and knocked out of the results. For months people have been saying "Anchor text is King" and it has been. It has been ultra reliable. It looks that has changed big time for the money keywords.
but what I can't figure.. is how did I get hurt? I didn't spam... and we use anchor text... We don't even have that many links out there... everyone here knows I've been busting my a** to get the count up.... Is there anyway to fight this Spam?? Contacting Google and showing them the site they screwed up?? I've been reviewed and in DMOZ for almost 2 years now... and within the last year was when we started getting any links... and they are all from sites we have done, are doing or for webmasters and frontpage users?!?!
That one Seth arguement... Does this mean because my main keywords are "FrontPage Templates" and that is what I truly use... I'm being punished???
That is one school of thought. How true it is remains to be seen. You were an interesting case. You tweaked the site a little, started getting links and BOOM you went right onto the first page. "FrontPage templates" is definitely a commercial phrase. Something must have been triggered. Or it could all be a technological blunder or unforeseen circumstance.
Here's something fun: http://www.scroogle.com It shows Google Classic listings. Just like the old days.
how goofy is that. a tool that shows sites that "should rank high" but don't. sort of cruel!
And now we even have HamsterRank.. http://searchguild.com/googleblog raven
[quote:5350e25227="raven"]And now we even have HamsterRank.. http://searchguild.com/googleblog raven[/quote:5350e25227] LOL. That is exactly what the world needed! :)
Check out this hitlist: http://www.scroogle.org/hitlist.html Pretty compelling evidence of certain keyphrases being targeted. They examine the former results and the current results and see how many of the sites are different. At the top of the list are the very spammy terms which have 98 out or 100 sites removed! There may be something to the dictionary filter after all.
a lot of searches i'm doing turn up the following: a page with one link to the search term i'm looking for and nothing else. directories are scoring high. this is ugly!
Aren't they going to get enough pressure from major companies and thousands of little companies to have them alter/fix or remove the "filter"?? If they don't could it be possible that companies will start pulling their business and going to Yahoo, MSN, etc... and building them back to #1?
My guess is that they are looking to pump up numbers prior to their IPO. If they apply a simple filter for "spam" sites, thus eliminating free traffic Webmasters are going to have to start paying for traffic. Through Adwords or other means. Realistically "they" have no obligation to "you" as a "freeloader" Whether or not there is enough to pressure to change the filter will remain to be seen!
they're experimenting with stemming too, but not all words. i also see a lot of stale pages in their index. some are weeks to a month old.
To Risk... or Not To Risk.. that is today's question of the day.... Does anyone ready SiteProNews???? The article today: Google's Next Big Move - By David Leonhardt http://www.sitepronews.com Do we prepare and make changes or is it going to remove/edit the filter .. I can't figure out if I'm better off doing what a lot of people seem to be doing ... holding my breath, buying adwords and praying.... or do I risk a #3/#4 slot if they remove this filter and start reoptimizing??? I'm one of the innocent sites hit with this damn filter and I'm scared to change... but at the same time... I can't afford to just wait and nothing happen....
The best thing to do is to start optimizing new pages for smaller, more focused key words. I am almost convinced that the filter is definitely on certain keyphrases only. It's not an algo change but a penalty for sites that looked "too perfect". Those keyphrases may be lost for that domain. So I say bring in new perfect pages for smaller 3, 4, or 5 word phrases.
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